Evidently, this group wants to protect us.

Go here then: Do liberals fear change?

I don't consider myself a whack-job liberal by any means, mainly because I like the occassional non-discriminant clubbing of baby artic seals, but I cringe at the thought that someone would be nominated to the Supreme Court to start interpreting the Constitution to appease the religious majority.

I guess no one cares...shame...why IS that?

quote:

Originally posted by ChrisDeGarmo7072:
I guess no one cares...shame...why IS that?

Because the religous right-wing couldn't get anyone with intelligence to swallow their bullshit, much less themselves. They'd shove a crucifix dildo up their asses for an extra buck, but I wouldn't mind seeing a panda getting flogged.

i'd say the 363,000 odd people who signed the petition care

i'm fine with someone who's going to interpret the constitution and not legislate from the bench (conservative OR liberal)

you know...do what the legislative branch is SUPPOSED to do.

quote:

you know...do what the legislative branch is SUPPOSED to do.

i think i might be misinterpreting what you're saying but...don't you mean the judicial branch?

doesn't it make you all warm and fuzzy knowing there's a group like that looking out for us?

you mean looking out for the religious conservatives

quote:

don't you mean the judicial branch?

yep...sorry

quote:

you mean looking out for the religious conservatives

that's not really fair...both sides are guilty of this. it's just the one that's not in power at the time is the one that moans and whines the most.

quote:

Originally posted by ChrisDeGarmo7072:
I guess no one cares...shame...why IS that?

Are you attempting sarcasm through a message board posting?

Assuming that it was, and boy, was it ever quality (how's the for fucking sarcasm), I would like to assume that you felt some amusement at the fact that even those that agree with the purpose of this post are not organized enough get on the same page?

If that all trickles down to resemble any reasoning for why you would waste the time to type it out, I would like to mention the fact that by 2009, the hick that has crippled our nation will be out but the damage will be too far gone to correct.

This scenario hurts all US citizens, conservative or liberal. You'd show less ignorance to acknowledge the fact that everyone does care, regardless of their reasons for doing so.

And if you don't care, you're a terrorist.

I disagree

I'm not particularly religious. I'm even in favor of the government being completely secular, no 'God' in the pledge, no Commandments in courthouses, ect. But when the religious appeasement in question is in regards to the issue of abortion, I'm all for it. It's just that one huge issue on which I agree with those crazy fundies for reasons very much secular.

quote:

Originally posted by FoolThemAll:

But when the religious appeasement in question is in regards to the issue of abortion, I'm all for it.

Not to turn this into a debate about abortion, but I wonder how you seperate the two instances? Abortion comes down to morality, which is founded on religion in one way or another, doesn't it?

"I hate abortion."
"Why?"
"It's just wrong."
"...Ok????"
"It's murder."
"Based on what premise?"
"Based on principles."
etc, etc....

I'm ok with differing opinions, especially on this topic. However, I would like to think that the Constitution made it pretty straight forward with regards to seperation of church and state to avoid hypocrocy and people of power leading by their own religious ideals.

Our nation's founders had the presence of mind to say, "Really, it isn't fair to say things are 'so' just because of religious beliefs. It needs to be fair and impartial."

I do care when the possibility of the person making a legal judgement on me or anyone else for that matter is lending more credence to his or her own religious beliefs. That is an unfair bias and it is not too much above racial bias.

Anarchy is for tree huggers, but seriously, should the government that we elect into power be able to tell us what we can or can't do on all aspects of private life? Anal sex illegal in Texas???? Who the fuck came up with that?

Rules govern, yes, but what is to stop those who oppose tatoos from saying it is illegal?

And at the very, very simple level of debate, I pose this question to our esteemed Administration: Capital punishment (ie - death penalty) is ok, but abortion is not? I thought the Commandments were pretty clear about the 'Thou Shalt Not Kill' thing? Did I miss a footnote?

Thou Shalt Not Kill*
* = Void in Texas

one of the foundations of the republican party used to be small central government and more states rights.. funny how they can put their foot in their mouth and at the same time kick americans in the ass with the other..

i think in a few years the repubs will back peddle on their stance in the right to die issue.. once they see how much the baby boomers will cost in health care, they'll be begging people to kill them off..

No, areligious people are very much capable of being moral. This is a sticking point I like to argue with my more religious friends and family.

I hate abortion because it's almost always an unjustified violation of the right to life. Pretty simple. (Which is not to say that there aren't complexities in the issue.)

I'm not sure that separation of Church and State is in the Constitution, but I'm all for it either way. And my position on abortion remains the same.

Justice Thomas actually was quoted as considering the sodomy law to be "silly", but he upheld it because he didn't think it was unconstitutional. I'm not 100% decided on this, but I think I agree with him. And I think it's a terrible law.

Death penalty, abortion...there's a pretty clear distinction here. I've heard before that the commandment is actually correctly translated as "Thou Shalt Not Murder", and therein lies the distinction. UNJUSTIFIED killing is what's unacceptable. It needs sufficient justification. The position is consistent.

Having said that, I don't hold that position. I don't think the death penalty is ever justified.

quote:

Originally posted by FoolThemAll:
No, areligious people are very much capable of being moral. This is a sticking point I like to argue with my more religious friends and family.

I hate abortion because it's almost always an unjustified violation of the right to life. Pretty simple. (Which is not to say that there aren't complexities in the issue.)

I'm not sure that separation of Church and State is in the Constitution, but I'm all for it either way. And my position on abortion remains the same.

Justice Thomas actually was quoted as considering the sodomy law to be "silly", but he upheld it because he didn't think it was unconstitutional. I'm not 100% decided on this, but I think I agree with him. And I think it's a terrible law.

Death penalty, abortion...there's a pretty clear distinction here. I've heard before that the commandment is actually correctly translated as "Thou Shalt Not Murder", and therein lies the distinction. UNJUSTIFIED killing is what's unacceptable. It needs sufficient justification. The position is consistent.

Having said that, I don't hold that position. I don't think the death penalty is ever justified.

for clarification, the sodomy law in texas was struck down a few years ago..

the problem with justification for murder is who says it's justified? i could have more than sufficient justification for killing someone, but that doesnt make me right to do it.. or the government..

also, it could be aruged that abortion is justified killing.. i dont like abortion.. i wish women weren't put in the position to choose something like that.. but the fact is they are..

quote:

Originally posted by Nephilim:
one of the foundations of the republican party used to be small central government and more states rights.. funny how they can put their foot in their mouth and at the same time kick americans in the ass with the other..

i think in a few years the repubs will back peddle on their stance in the right to die issue.. once they see how much the baby boomers will cost in health care, they'll be begging people to kill them off..

I agree. I used to stay away from I'm a Liberal, you're a Conservative, blah blah blah, because there are moderates and fundementalists on both sides.

Typical Republican values were anti-big government, but it seems that has changed as more right-wing Conservatives have taken power. Oh wait, they are called "Passionate Republicans". Trying to correct the oxy-moron?

I'm still confused where all this 'family values' shite has come from with this past election. If people really cared about it, why did they wait until the 11th hour to state so? Lazy fucking pilgrims.

quote:

Originally posted by FoolThemAll:
No, areligious people are very much capable of being moral.

I agree with basic human morality, but it has its roots and more than not is exploited and used against people with differing opinions as "I'm taking the high moral road".

quote:

I hate abortion because it's almost always an unjustified violation of the right to life. Pretty simple. (Which is not to say that there aren't complexities in the issue.)

And that is fine. I only question the fact that embryos do not exist with rights. How can it be illegal without drilling down to the granular level of "the second an egg is fertilized, it has all legal rights afforded to all natural-born American citizens"? You can't do that, so you are left to subjective biases, which is the whole issue to begin with.

As Neph said, "who says what is justified"? You'll never get a consensus on this, so why not allow it to be done in safe institutions versus banning it and seeing how many under-educated high school girls die in back allies.

Maybe we could fund our deficit by taxing abortion? I'm an outside-the-box thinker....

quote:

Death penalty, abortion...there's a pretty clear distinction here. ... UNJUSTIFIED killing is what's unacceptable. It needs sufficient justification.

How is that a distinction? Murder is murder is murder, justified or not. If a prisoner is killed against his will, that by all means constitutes murder. The problem is that we apply emotional connotations to one and not the other. The death penalty is dealt with, "Well, an eye for an eye" and abortion is "Oh, that poor little fetus."

It comes down to what allows people to sleep at night.

you sexxy faggot.. are you on?

quote:

Originally posted by myfriendblue:

quote:

Originally posted by FoolThemAll:
No, areligious people are very much capable of being moral.

I agree with basic human morality, but it has its roots and more than not is exploited and used against people with differing opinions as "I'm taking the high moral road".

quote:

I hate abortion because it's almost always an unjustified violation of the right to life. Pretty simple. (Which is not to say that there aren't complexities in the issue.)

And that is fine. I only question the fact that embryos do not exist with rights. How can it be illegal without drilling down to the granular level of "the second an egg is fertilized, it has all legal rights afforded to all natural-born American citizens"? You can't do that, so you are left to subjective biases, which is the whole issue to begin with.

As Neph said, "who says what is justified"? You'll never get a consensus on this, so why not allow it to be done in safe institutions versus banning it and seeing how many under-educated high school girls die in back allies.

Maybe we could fund our deficit by taxing abortion? I'm an outside-the-box thinker....

quote:

Death penalty, abortion...there's a pretty clear distinction here. ... UNJUSTIFIED killing is what's unacceptable. It needs sufficient justification.

How is that a distinction? Murder is murder is murder, justified or not. If a prisoner is killed against his will, that by all means constitutes murder. The problem is that we apply emotional connotations to one and not the other. The death penalty is dealt with, "Well, an eye for an eye" and abortion is "Oh, that poor little fetus."

It comes down to what allows people to sleep at night.

coffee, chocolate and men...some things are better rich!