I'm genuinely curious why so many people have turned to atheism. I want no debate, and minimal discussion, merely reasons why you or your friends have turned to atheism.

First off, bit of an assumption that people will only have 'turned to' atheism. Assumes everyone used to be religious.

As for me though, I became atheist (agnostic?) due to lack of a motivating reason to stay christian. There didn't seem to be anything there to make me stay. It probably has a large part to do with me studying philosophy, in the sense that I couldn't help but see the position as unconvincing and untenable. It didn't have anything to do with christianity being evil or wrong, or any of the other dawkins-ish arguments people usually talk about. It was just that it wasn't doing its job as a symbolic motivator/reinforcer because it seemed (and still seems) so completely unconvincing as a set of beliefs.

Basically, I agree that the kind of humility and gratefulness involved in the religious impulse is generally a positive thing (especially as represented by the modern filtered, selective version of christianity that's around now) , but because the beliefs appealed to seem so unconvincing I can no longer reap that benefit. So I'm basically an atheist against my will.

Does that make sense?

yeah, it does. And sorry for my terminology...

What about others?

I'm not atheist, more agnostic, because atheism implies a total denial of a possibility of there being a great being in control of the universe or whatever. I'm agnostic mainly because I was/am raised in a family that are not practitioners of any religion, and there was no discussion of religion in my household. I learned about many different religions and belief systems through school and through living where I live, San Francisco. Also, many of my relatives: aunts, uncles, grandparents, etc; are "believers".

I have tried to believe in a greater being, however I just couldn't get passed knowing that life is just random coincidences and only we have the power to control our lives.

I think religion can be a good thing, as it brings morals and order to certain people's lives who maybe need direction in their lives. This is just how I see religion, it brings direction and purpose to those who maybe can't deal with the fact that there is no reasoning to life and being.

In regards to heaven and hell, I have accepted the fact that if in fact they end up existing, I will be going to hell. This is fine because my idea of heaven is one where everyone just sits around immersed in some overwhelming feeling of euphoria (?), I'd fear that I wouldn't feel this along with everyone else, and there would be a shortage of chairs so some people would just be awkwardly standing around.

I don't know if this makes any real sense, and I hope that my wording or opinions don't offend anyone. These are just the ideas I have formed over the years.

I'm not really that religious, but I have my own warped version of buddhism. It's basically like the whole cycle thing occurs during your lifetime. So the whole reincarnation thing ends up being different periods of your life. Like if you really fuck around too much, in a year or so it'll show. If you really try hard, it will also show. Sometimes you regret things-- that's part of dukkha. Posessions are also dukkha. It's all about dying without regret... like it must be really hard to be sitting on your death bed thinking of all the things you could have done or shouldn't have done in your lifetime.

That's about as religious as I get. In a sense, having idols and stuff like that, including gods, in a sense seems like dukkha to me.

My heart was all ready to sign the documents to get into heaven, but then my brain had a talk to it and said that if it was to sign the documents it was leaving. So my heart had a change of... heart, and here I am... intelligent.

PS. How's Jehovas Witnessing going for you Interpol? Do you still hate gay people? Do you still like ABBA?

I never bought the whole "God" thing. So one day, I walked up to my parents, Bible in hand, and said straightout, "This is all bullshit, isn't it?"

My mom - "Yeahhhh."

My dad - "Pretty much."

True story =]

It's made me a better person, too. Rational, much more intelligent, and I've discovered what I like to call 'nonfiction' XD

Interesting. I asked because I see atheism all around me, and it has come to a point that it is nearly embarrassing to be religious. In my experience, those who are atheist tend to be so because they don't believe the Bible is true, they see the massive corruption in world religion, and/or they prefer what they call 'facts' (I have a reason I put it in quotes)

I am still religious, because I can see the corruption and deceit of false religion and I refuse to follow it. I have seen the verity of the Bible, because I don't just read and think "well, that's just how it is". I search for answers on my own and find them. In all honesty, I feel like atheism is the easy way. It takes guts and perseverance to be religious (with conviction) nowadays.
I see it like this:
You were bought a machine from the store and are reading the manual on how to operate it. But it is very hard to understand.
Most religious people nowadays are like the people who read the manual, think they have an understanding of it and when the machine breaks they blame the machine.
Some atheists find the manual too difficult and try to figure it out for themselves.
Others see the frustrations others have had with the machine and so they decide to give up on trying it.
I think that the right way is to study the manual, in depth. Call the company who made it and see how to operate it properly. Ask for help from others who managed to get it working and continue on without giving up.

Sure, it's a corny illustration wrought with opinion, but that is how I feel.

P.S.

quote:

PS. How's Jehovas Witnessing going for you Interpol? Do you still hate gay people? Do you still like ABBA?

I am still one of Jehovah's Witnesses, yes. Always will be.
I don't hate anyone and never have. Let me clarify something here...
The Bible does not condemn homosexuals or even homosexuality, merely the act of sodomy. In addition to that, we are commissioned to love our neighbor as ourselves, in fact Jesus said that was the identifying mark of true Christians.
And no, I have never liked ABBA. I posted that topic as a joke since the night before someone said that it should have been done as a joke in the forum chat.

P.P.S.
I also want to add a little addendum about science. I do believe in scientific discovery. It fascinates me. Just because I believe in God, doesn't mean I'm ignorant, as that seems to be the popular opinion.
I think though that people have replaced religion with science and put their faith in facts.
False religion:
People giving themselves positions of power to interpret a "higher intelligence". People blindly believe since they do not question those in power (priests, etc).

False science:
People studying for many years and gaining positions of prowess and then "interpreting" facts for the 'lesser' ones. Those people do not question the verity or logistics of the facts since they are not the educated ones.

Illustrating Hebrews 11:1


"Faith is the assured expectation of things hoped for, the evident demonstration of realities though not beheld" (NWT)


Let's take . . . PIE. I have a favorite pie and when I walk into the room and smell that aroma, I think . . . "There's a pie cooking". Now, I look around the kitchen and I see apple peelings, bits of crust dough lying around, flour on the counter. I KNOW there's pie and what KIND of pie it is. I've never seen it, but I know it's there.



Now I KNOW that the pie is there ..... it's cooking ...... it's apple ..... And it's for me.



And I know all this without having ever SEEN the pie. The evidence of it's existence is all around me. And I KNOW I'll be eating pie soon. The same is true of 'faith'. We have never seen Jehovah ..... but we've seen the EVIDENCE of Him in the natural world, in his people, in prayers being answered, prophecies being fulfilled and more promised. We KNOW, beyond a shadow of a doubt that He's real and working for our good.

Now we just have to wait for the "timer to ring".

Science on the other hand feels like saying "the smell is from scented candles, the oven was turned on by chance, and someone just peeled an apple to eat it... etc"

It all makes sense but doesn't fit in the bigger picture of what is really happening. It feels like someone is snipping jigsaw puzzle pieces to make it fit into the picture they have in their heads as opposed to looking at the box.


AND-
This is mostly opinion. Do not reply with angry remarks. There is no need for heated debate. Lets keep it civilized. If people cannot keep calm I will delete this and resort to discussion by PM.

I have to be honest with you, but that is one of the most ridiculous analogies I've ever read. I would have thought the 'faith' that a pie was in the process of being baked came from at least one previous experience of witnessing a pie of that particular flavour. Without that past experience of the food you would only be guessing as to what that combination of evidence would lead too.

Also, how do you know it is cooking? Have you bothered to check if the oven is on yet or is that not important? How do you know it hasn't already left the room? Why do you assume it is for you? Have you learned over previous experiences that when you get home in the afternoon and there is a pie in the oven it is for you?

I would have thought that science was the endeavour of finding the resultant product of the existing evidence and basing your assumptions of events on previous results that have shown reproducibility. So once again, you assume there is a pie being cooked because your previous experience tells you that that is the end result of the evidence of apple pie aroma, apple peelings, crust dough, and flour in a kitchen.

Frankly I would question the reproducibility of your evidence of prayers being answered and prophecies being fulfilled. That people believe in 'him' and 'his' magical powers there can be no doubt.

Will you feel like a bit of an idiot if you sit there for a day waiting for the timer to ring only to find that the 'apple pie' never existed and was actually a mean practical joke played by your friends because they think you're fat and eat too much apple pie?

So to sum up, you certainly write well but the pictures you conjure resemble the after effect of a mishap between a penis and an apple pie.

I haven't quoted you so if you want to delete it it will look like I've just gone on a big rant about pie for no reason!

quote:

Will you feel like a bit of an idiot if you sit there for a day waiting for the timer to ring only to find that the 'apple pie' never existed and was actually a mean practical joke played by your friends because they think you're fat and eat too much apple pie?

I won't delete it, I wasn't expecting favorable replies... discussion is fine

What I have to say to the quoted is that we will have to see. The future is uncertain and you may be the one shocked to see the "pie" coming out of the oven. I'm not trying to "convert" or convince anyone, its just how I see things...

It better not be apple if it ever comes out. I fucking hate apple pie.

what would it take for you to believe in God?
What kind of irrefutable evidence would you need?
Are you scared to believe in God because that means you'll be part of a religion? Or because it means refusing other things you strongly believe in?
What prevents you?

I would like irrefutable evidence, I don't care what form it takes. I worry about religion because of some of the things that people do in the name of it (yes, it is true that some religious people do good things but this could be done without the need for religion). I'm certainly not scared of there being a divine being, that would be pretty awesome but I just doubt it exists at this point of time because of a lack of specific evidence. I like science because if there is ever going to be an answer to how and why we exist, it will be science that helps us find it. What prevents me is logic. I certainly don't believe that a divine being would have any control over my actions in any way shape or form on a day to day basis.

Yea, well, you will regret your atheism when you ARE BURNING IN HELL.